tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post7795620096821389364..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Rationing Health CareAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-42684617157318266632009-08-19T15:27:56.496-06:002009-08-19T15:27:56.496-06:00Good post and it is interesting to see how this de...Good post and it is interesting to see how this debate has grown in the US. Being English, I find the majority of the anti-nationalised healthcare remarks fairly entertaining - especially the ones which show no understanding of how the NHS works. (This is not to say that the NHS is ideal, nor is it identical to the model proposed by Obama, which makes its use as a anti-icon even more weird).<br /><br />Healthcare, IMHO of course, is such an important role for society it really should be centrally controlled. While not perfect this allows for economies of scale to be used on a national basis. There is nothing in the UK healthcare system that restricts patient choice in the manner normally described. A sick person in the UK can go to their nearest hospital for treatment, or travel to a different one for specialist care, or even chose to pay for their own treatment (using a variety of health insurance schemes or their savings). There is a priority system as to how people will get treated but this is based on medical grounds rather than their ability to pay - although as with most things, the rich find it easier to private. <br /><br />Living in a very remote rural area, the biggest advantage of a national health service is that there is a free hosptial near by. The government is required to provide healthcare services to the public even in places where it would not be economically viable. <br /><br />Creating a system where the government issues tax credits to people who can then use them to buy insurance which will then pay for their treatment seems (on first reading) a bit of a jumbled way of doing things. It introduces several levels of bureaucracy that add nothing to the end result. Insurance companies and accountants will get rich for no real effort. <br /><br />Additionally, wouldn't a system like this open the doors to the very poor selling their credits and falling into worse health? While it is often neglected, one of the realisations that lead to the NHS was that treating everyone (even those who cant afford it) helps keep everyone healthier and reduces overall costs. Who wants vast numbers of sick homeless people acting as breeding grounds for disease?TWhttp://www.whydontyou.org.uk/blog/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-3803003485695799082009-08-19T14:47:38.024-06:002009-08-19T14:47:38.024-06:00Jay -
I think that government intervention in the ...Jay -<br /><i>I think that government intervention in the market is alway onerous</i>.<br /><br />I'm not sure how to make sense of this statement as it's written, I think you may be using one of terms in that sentence in an unusual way? The government intervenes in the protection market via a free police force, for example. More to the point, in times of drought the government sometimes intervenes in the water markets. This causes distress to the users of golf courses, but it brings relief to those at risk of severe dehydration. I don't think this is a case of legal obligations causing more hardship than they prevent...<br /><br />All that is only tangentially related to health insurance reform anyway, because there is no such proposal in congress. What these people are claiming is that the government will take away your ability to choose certain procedures. This is simply false. The most aggressive options being proposed would simply set up yet another health insurance company that people could choose to subscribe to, this one would simply be run by the govt instead of a board of directors. People could still pay out-of-pocket for anything they want to, and in fact they'd have MORE health-care options because they could now have SOME level of insurance that would cover a portion of those costs for certain common procedures.<br /><br />The reform proposed would give people more choices in health care, not take any away. It is the exact opposite of everything these critics are claiming.Eneaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14500232958398471146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-2857519401991642732009-08-19T13:54:39.891-06:002009-08-19T13:54:39.891-06:00Kip:
I think that government intervention in the m...Kip:<br />I think that government intervention in the market is alway onerous. At times it makes sense. I wouldn't want to have to shop around for sewage treatment. As for healthcare, I'm more inclined to have direct payment to individuals (via tax credits) and allow them to purchase insurance rather than have the government run a system. Market forces are maintained and people can afford to participate.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14417054871813487854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-64829835101830475332009-08-19T13:10:58.756-06:002009-08-19T13:10:58.756-06:00> Rationing that is a result of market forces a...> Rationing that is a result of market forces and choices of individuals is substantially less onerous than rationing the government employs to keep costs down.<br /><br />Is it? Always? I'm not sure.<br /><br />Anyway, on a related note... this is the best article I've read regarding alternative Health Care Reform options: http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2009/Senate/Maps/Aug17-s.html#1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-21590571716907228862009-08-19T11:35:43.160-06:002009-08-19T11:35:43.160-06:00The point I think you may have missed is that it m...The point I think you may have missed is that it matters who is doing the "rationing." Rationing that is a result of market forces and choices of individuals is substantially less onerous than rationing the government employs to keep costs down. The simple reason is because the government can and must impose upon a market to get the desired results.<br /><br />Another concern is the government employing measures that remove the natural distribution of the scarce resource (in this case healthcare) and either drive costs out of control or force providers out of the market because the return on investment is too low.<br /><br />I agree with your statement "Many of the current problems with our health care coverage can be traced to government mandates that drive up the cost and limit the ways in which people can obtain health insurance." Let's all take a breath, step back from the brink, lower the rhetoric and examine what works in our system (a lot) and fix the issues that really need to be addressed.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14417054871813487854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-4671794599780833992009-08-19T08:04:03.717-06:002009-08-19T08:04:03.717-06:00Newspapers say things like this because newspapers...Newspapers say things like this because newspapers are, at a basic level, censored by their owners, and their owners are rich and greedy.<br /><br />This is hardly an original statement, I realize, but people don't realize just <i>how</i> greedy newspaper (and other media) ownership is. From the standpoint of an average person, the folks up at the top of the ladder have an insatiable greed which is practically unimaginable.<br /><br />Over the last decade or so, you may have noticed that lots of mid-sized (and several large-sized) newspapers on the national stage of the U.S. have been bought and sold, and in the process they have been gutted, often removing the features which make the papers attractive in the first place. (Locally-written book and movie reviews, for example, have been replaced by nationally syndicated ones in many papers.)<br /><br />The reason for all the changes is that a newspaper is considered unsuccessful if it is producing 10% profit each year. Think about that for a moment: do you know of <i>any</i> investment open to the average person where a 10% profit each year would be considered poor performance?<br /><br />And yet to the people who control the media, that's normal. And they get what they want, too, or else they go elsewhere, so you can bet they're rich. Is it any surprise that they see to it that their possessions come down heavily on the side of the wealthy?The VIcarnoreply@blogger.com