tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post3732351533246947839..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Apologies and ForgivenessAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-5599251738915854172011-11-30T21:32:03.572-07:002011-11-30T21:32:03.572-07:00i would say that if y ou want to make an example o...i would say that if y ou want to make an example of athiest strength within american communities that we should wait for a target that deserves the exercise of that strength.<br /><br />putting andy out of buisness would show our strength but it would also show that we have problems selecting obviously worthy targets. <br /><br />i dont want our movement to show that it wield blind strength. (thats what religions tend to do)<br /><br />furthermore by making his ratings go down and then making them return to previous hights we show our strengh in both desutruction and creation while proving that making amends can make a difference. if we didnt show that making amends can make a difference, there would be no pressure for people who have made mistakes to try to make amends. it would encourage them to dig deeper to see if they could apeal to our enemies (religous nuts) since they would have no chance to win us back.<br /><br />you want buisness to be trying to win the athiest community and to do that you need to make sure that they are in the race if they want to be.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08544209777124068097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-66641486428286546272011-11-30T13:14:07.208-07:002011-11-30T13:14:07.208-07:00Anyone can issue a convincingly worded apology and...Anyone can issue a convincingly worded apology and claim that they'll behave better in the future. Hell, even BP can do that when sufficiently motivated. <br /><br />GelatoGuy got online ratings-bombed by both sk4 and reddit atheism, dropping from > 90% to < 10% on Urbanspoon in a single day, with similarly precipitous drops on Google and Yelp. This is not an insignificant factual point, when we are considered whether there was an absence of duress. This guy runs an independent business in the somewhat touristy part of town, so his ratings should matter.<br /><br />I tend to think that Andy's apology is genuine (based on evidence that hasn't been featured here) but even then there is the question of whether it makes sense for the skeptics and atheists to go back and change their ratings. If Gelato Mio went under (not going to happen, but just imagine) wouldn't that be a deterrent to Christian bigots throughout the Bible Belt to think twice before expressing their bigotry in public? Granted, it's unfair to Andy as a person, but then there is no reason to assume that his thwarted desires outweigh all the desires of freethinkers who are confronted with bigotry within the local area, whose lives would be enhanced by this deterrent effect. What sayeth the desirist calculus?Damionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14360566092148805751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-66422333333665960452011-11-29T18:09:48.843-07:002011-11-29T18:09:48.843-07:00Peter White
From Andy's apology:
I strongly ...<b>Peter White</b><br /><br />From Andy's apology:<br /><br /><i>I strongly believe that everybody is entitled to their beliefs. For what it’s worth, nobody was turned away. I strongly believe that everybody is entitled to their beliefs. I’m not apologizing for my beliefs, but rather for my inexcusable actions. I was wrong.</i><br /><br />What was wrong?<br /><br />It was discriminating against people on the basis of their belief. In other words, this is quite simply an apology for performing the actions of a bigot.<br /><br />He did not apologize for "illegally barring a group for not being a Christian". In fact, the question of law does not even show up in his apology. He did not say that he realized his act was <i>illegal</i>. He said he realized that the act was <i>wrong</i>.<br /><br />You may want to attribute to him the motivation that he acted only out of a concern for the law. But, then, you are assigning properties for which there is no evidence - there is only your desire to believe that they are true.<br /><br />But I do not consider that to be an ideal way to form beliefs.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-9223232989298275022011-11-29T17:33:20.764-07:002011-11-29T17:33:20.764-07:00How can you reasonably claim that Gelato Guy is no...How can you reasonably claim that Gelato Guy is not responsible for the culture of bigotry that is part of his belief system? If you are part of the problem that does not absolve you of responsibility simply because you can't control the others who are also part of the problem. Is it OK to be a bigot as long as you have support from your community?<br />I saw no apology from Gelato Guy for being a bigot. The apology I saw was about illegally barring a particular group from his store for not being Christian.Peter Whitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214435586629463058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-42386187036224357542011-11-29T17:21:41.369-07:002011-11-29T17:21:41.369-07:00well said.well said.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08544209777124068097noreply@blogger.com