tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post157660032488839749..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Why I Care About Anti-Atheist BigotryAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-44126361709130326182010-01-17T10:49:59.883-07:002010-01-17T10:49:59.883-07:00Atheists are just as bigoted as any person of any ...Atheists are just as bigoted as any person of any faith. All people are bigots in some manner and will always be in protective stance of their own beliefs or lack thereof. <br />There is bigotry against Christians (which atheists seem to vent against the most..and seems to be the reason for their organization) bigotry against Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. Join the crowd and get over it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-31399209976054442772009-02-13T13:56:00.000-07:002009-02-13T13:56:00.000-07:00This is the attitude that drove me to become out a...This is the attitude that drove me to become out and an activist in the first place... I also encourage all people who feel strongly about it to do the same. It is important that we let the public know that we exist and are not going to move to another country. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-39193430581011085202008-04-22T07:41:00.000-06:002008-04-22T07:41:00.000-06:00Atheism needs to explain how selfless it is. How w...<I>Atheism needs to explain how selfless it is. How we don't waste time praying, we [fill in the blank]. </I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps exercise is a good blank filler. Just to hedge our bets against those Jedi Knights, right? Better to have a bunch of trim, healthy, and strong non-believers at the ready than the tired, paunchy, out-of-breath, and middle-aged atheists we've got now. A non-religion of sexy super-humans!<BR/><BR/>As it is, the real answer for the BLANK is probably: blog. (Will we be known for our amazing finger-strength and manual dexterity?"dbonfittohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08787420987976232701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-22438940347636792112008-04-18T14:21:00.000-06:002008-04-18T14:21:00.000-06:00Truth is good, falsity is bad. So there's a virtue...Truth is good, falsity is bad. <BR/><BR/>So there's a virtue in being right about the way the universe is, and vice in being wrong. <BR/><BR/>We live in an atheistic universe, so atheists believe in something true, so we're better - in that one aspect - than theists.<BR/><BR/>Clearly theists would wish to move some words around that sentence.<BR/><BR/>But on a day to day, practical basis, obviously I agree with you. Belief or lack of belief in gods as an abstract is morally neutral.<BR/><BR/>Are there people who believe in gods who then don't do anything about it? One of the many reasons I'm an atheist is that the implications of gods existing would mean I would, logically, have to dedicate every single thought and action to Their service. Are there, in the real world, people who go 'God definitely exists [shrug]'?<BR/><BR/>I think instead of an abstract debate, we need to trumpet the achievements of atheism, explain the benefits. Not the intangible ones.<BR/><BR/>If there's a disaster and a hundred million Christians go to church and pray and one atheist donates one drop of blood or donates one cent to the relief fund, that atheist has, inarguably, done infinitely more than all those Christians put together. <BR/><BR/>Tell a Christian that, they'll start whingeing. They'll talk about souls and angels and hope and 'miracles' (definition: God kills a thousand people for every one miraculous survivor) blah blah. People reading this, try it out on a Christian message board.<BR/><BR/>There's an absolute debate-stopping argument: yeah, but the churches organise blood drives and collect millions for charity. <BR/><BR/>Christians never make that argument. Because modern American Christianity has all but forgotten the good works stuff in favour of 'a personal relationship with Jesus' where 'what Jesus would do' coincides with what a fat middleaged middle class Republican would do to preserve and improve their standard of living. <BR/><BR/>The killer app for religion *ought* to be that it creates armies of Jedi Knights, dedicated to selfless lives of service, at peace with themselves, building a better, fairer society.<BR/><BR/>Instead of, say, the exact opposite of that.<BR/><BR/>Atheism needs to occupy this territory. It needs to emphasise the scientific, educational, medical, environmental, law enforcement aspects (creationists don't believe in evolution ... they would convict a criminal on DNA evidence). <BR/><BR/>Fundamentalists believe what the Bible tells them, that it is the duty of humanity to 'terrorise' animals (that's the actual word). They're ours to do what we want with, and the vicious, limited, bronze age view of the world is that means hunt and torture and skin and experiment upon and drive extinct for sport.<BR/><BR/>Richard Dawkins' view, that DNA proves that we're virtually the same as the higher primates and not all that different from any living creature (and certainly no animal), leads to the opposite conclusion: that we can learn from animals, that we should cherish and protect them. <BR/><BR/>That's not a case of moral neutrality. That's a case where Christians are wrong and evil and the atheist is right and good. And, crucially, most moderate Christians would agree. <BR/><BR/>Atheism needs to explain how selfless it is. How we don't waste time praying, we [fill in the blank]. <BR/><BR/>The problem is that people - atheists and theists - tend to concentrate on the blank.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-12385711573554207972008-04-18T08:48:00.000-06:002008-04-18T08:48:00.000-06:00AnonymousJust the opposite. We're over the God fad...Anonymous<BR/><BR/><I>Just the opposite. We're over the God fad in the UK and any theists seeking high office are treated with scorn and hatred.</I><BR/><BR/>I have not had time to read matthew's article - to busy replying to comments here :-) - but as I noted there are many different issues in the UK, one main one being many double standards still in favor of religion. <BR/><BR/>As for politicians and religion well there is no bigotry one way or another, for now and lets hope that does not change. There are known theist in government, apart from the CofE bishops! ;-). others they don't deliberately publicize it. It should not be a political issue - unless one's beliefs get in the way of doing one's job.To repesent the citizens of their constituency and/or country regardless of their personal beliefsMartin Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-37181259841756497942008-04-18T08:38:00.000-06:002008-04-18T08:38:00.000-06:00'This is because there is pretty much, at present,...'This is because there is pretty much, at present, no anti-atheist bigotry in the UK'<BR/><BR/>Just the opposite. We're over the God fad in the UK and any theists seeking high office are treated with scorn and hatred.<BR/><BR/>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/matthew_parris/article3085157.ece<BR/><BR/>America's always been a couple of generations behind on the moral issues. You'll get there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-19119887511780427862008-04-18T07:43:00.000-06:002008-04-18T07:43:00.000-06:00"...introduce prayer in school and exercise the at...<I>"...introduce prayer in school and exercise the atheists out of it."</I><BR/><BR/>Is that anything like "Drop and give me 10 Hail Marys!" or is it a more aerobic "Sweatin' for Jesus?"<BR/><BR/>Ah, you mean "Get me an old priest and a young priest." Right. Still, morning calisthenics aren't a bad idea if we're looking for an alternative to prayer. <BR/><BR/>Fantastic blog. Amusing typos. Rock on Alonzo.dbonfittohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08787420987976232701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-33919089416881866692008-04-18T05:08:00.000-06:002008-04-18T05:08:00.000-06:00anonymousI wrote under the assumption that the pro...<B>anonymous</B><BR/><BR/>I wrote under the assumption that the problem with anti-atheist bigotry is that there are anti-atheist bigots. The problem is 'people'. Even where we blame the problem on 'the law' it is the case that 'the people' make the law and are responsible for it.<BR/><BR/>We have one generation of anti-atheist bigots creating another generation of anti-atheist bigots using the Pledge of Allegiance, the national motto, declarations that atheists hate America and are working towards the next great holocaust, and the way to prevent your child from being shot in school is to introduce prayer in school and exercise the atheists out of it.<BR/><BR/>Yes, the campaign against anti-atheist bigotry has to be a campaign against anti-atheist bigots.<BR/><BR/>This includes a campaign against creating another generation of anti-atheist bigots by getting the anti-atheist bigotry lesson books removed from the nation's schools.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-81467821833400640312008-04-18T03:01:00.000-06:002008-04-18T03:01:00.000-06:00AnonymousBut the problem isn't the law, it's the v...Anonymous<BR/><BR/><I>But the problem isn't the law, it's the voters. </I><BR/>And this is where campaigning against anti-atheist bigotry will help. <BR/><BR/>Voters in other countries, such as in Europe, with a nominal religious majority have voted in members of other religions or, quite explicitly, no religion. (There are members of the BHA and/ the NSS who are elected MPs in the UK) This is because there is pretty much, at present, no anti-atheist bigotry in the UK (it has other problems though).<BR/><BR/>So by stopping further ant-atheist bigotry US voters would eventually see there is no issue with voting atheist into power. This is blatantly not the case at the moment.Martin Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-63530155388321787522008-04-18T00:16:00.000-06:002008-04-18T00:16:00.000-06:00There's a difference, though, between 'can't run f...There's a difference, though, between 'can't run for office' and 'wouldn't win if they did'. <BR/><BR/>There's nothing in law stopping atheists from running for public office. He wouldn't win. In most places in America, a middle-aged white Protestant man will win. <BR/><BR/>But the problem isn't the law, it's the voters. <BR/><BR/>And I think this is a very, very important distinction you don't always make.<BR/><BR/>It makes the problem *worse* in a lot of ways, of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com