tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post8516724238791594849..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Pornography Part IAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-63896837312898642652010-06-30T16:41:44.110-06:002010-06-30T16:41:44.110-06:00I am hearing this debate regarding pornography tak...I am hearing this debate regarding pornography taking place here, but I have a question to ask (please keep in mind here that I am also not a student or teacher of philosophy). Could a discussion on the morality of pornography somehow fit into determinism? Does it not seem to raise any suspicion that statistically speaking, the majority of women who are engaged in this kind of work have been sexually abused as little girls. When I see discussions on this topic (and surely they are worthwhile and interesting)this particular matter never comes to surface. Why? Would it not seem to be information of great pertinence? Now I would never be the kind to stand protesting for a ban on this kind of trash (which is exactly what it is) even though I know I could call it so. Why? Because banning it would ultimately be meaningless and not necessarily assist in changing what I believe to be the fundamental issues at hand. One being the degradation of women and children in society, and the other being deeper relationship issues between men and women. But I ask this in all sincerity. How could a women look at herself in the mirror and claim this great sense of freedom in doing pornography. So what is she telling herself or even society telling her for that matter? That the sexual abuse she endured in childhood has nothing at all do with her behavior, and that somehow she has achieved some liberation when she lies to herself every day. This cannot be the natural state of women and yet she wants to (society) wants to keep believing it so against all truth and reason. Again, it is interesting that such a terrifying statistic about women in prostitution and pornography would not warrant our further attention. Then again, eroticizing women and children seems so commonplace in the culture we live in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-2286413881180027032008-10-15T09:02:00.000-06:002008-10-15T09:02:00.000-06:00You missed the fact that women are harmed by the p...You missed the fact that women are harmed by the pornography industry - in every step of its production.<BR/>The 'models' are very often coerced by poverty or existing power structures, by media influence or childhood sexual molestation, to believe that in order to be sexual, they must be passive and enjoy everything a man gives them. <BR/><BR/>This does emotional damage to an individual. <BR/>It's said that the plural of anecdotes is data. Well, I've read hundreds of anecdotes from women who claim that their boyfriends/husbands would make them act out what they saw in their porno movies, against their will. And then there're the studies which suggest that watching violent acts of any kind, sexual or non-sexual, decreases empathy.<BR/>There's also evidence to suggest that using pornography can become an addiction with a real chemical cycle which is very similar to cocaine addiction.<BR/><BR/>We have government programs to protect people from killing themselves, we should have programs that prevent people in positions of power from taking advantage of someone else's self-loathing or poverty. <BR/><BR/>Crack is a horrible drug. It has links to gang violence and degradation of urban areas. People die from using. It can cause violent and sexual behavior. It is extremely addictive.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it should be illegal. I think it should be government regulated. People should be educated about its effects and harms and be given access to a variety of programs which can help them rid themselves of their addiction.<BR/><BR/>Being an atheist, I figure that the universe is mostly deterministic, if not a bit random. That means... guess what... free will is a bit of an illusion. Yeah, I can choose to go get a shower right now, and then go to school, or not go to school, but the set of choices I have to make in any given day is largely pre-determined by my social status and geography. <BR/><BR/>So, I could imagine how I could have, in my late teen years, found myself in a different situation - one where I was in poverty. I don't have a high-school education - not through any fault of my own, but because I had to take care of the kids, because my religious upbringing made me believe that abortion is a sin.<BR/>Now, through my own free will, I've decided to work in a strip club and model in pornography. It's the only job that allows me to set my own hours, and to make great gobs of cash. Money is power. I earn money through porn. Therefore, porn is empowering. <BR/><BR/>Olvizi, you were right when you mentioned the objectification of those in pornography. I used watch pornography less than 3 hours a week (I'm a woman as well) and it made me objectify myself! I treated myself as an object! I started wearing dresses and lots of makeup, and having 'rape' fantasies! <BR/>I'm a sexual being - I love coming and making my partner come. But from watching pornography, I made myself less than human - something that existed for the pleasure of others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-68547393243884785182007-05-18T23:20:00.000-06:002007-05-18T23:20:00.000-06:00Alonzo --I don't think the analogy comparing liber...Alonzo --<BR/><BR/>I don't think the analogy comparing liberals wishing wilderness areas to exist even though they will never experience them and those who oppose porn just because they don't like it is a good one.<BR/><BR/>I suspect most liberals who wish remote wilderness areas to exist do so because they believe such areas are important to the organisms that live there, to people who will get to visit them, and because harming these finite and ever vanishing areas is a reckless policy with many potential negative consequences.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-67000942758791452752007-05-17T04:32:00.000-06:002007-05-17T04:32:00.000-06:00People also act so as to ban pornography because t...<I>People also act so as to ban pornography because this fulfills the more an stronger of their desires, given their beliefs.</I><BR/><BR/>True for some people who want a ban but the situation is more complex than that. Some of us who analyze the situation from the assumption that people have inherent rights which are violated by their forced or coerced participation in the pornography industry would like to suppress some forms of pornography on that basis. Some would go farther and say that the potential of viewing people as objects leads directly to the assumption that there is no reason to not use them as objects and so at least some forms of pornography should be suppressed or at least discouraged. Many of us might desire to see all pornography banned but realize that any produced by entirely competent, consenting adults and consumed by entirely competent, consenting adults is rightly beyond the reach of the law, though not of cultural criticism. You can be in favor of some of what is conveiently labled "pornography" without being against all of it. There are many fans of straight porn who wouldn't have a problem with the most violent suppression of gay porn, for example. Quite frankly, if there was some way to do it I'd rather live in a world where snuff and rape porn were entirely suppressed, I'm not an absolutist. <BR/><BR/>A lot of people make a distinction between what they see as porn and what they see as erotica, the representation of people as having an emotional life and a mind as well as the plumbing is often given as the distinguishing feature. I've noticed that it's usually a matter of the participants being represented aa caring about each other and not exploiting the other in ways that are harmful to them.olvlzlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15329638018157415801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-86769635624980816792007-05-17T01:39:00.000-06:002007-05-17T01:39:00.000-06:00"In the other case, the agent seeks to prohibit pe..."In the other case, the agent seeks to prohibit people from obtaining the fulfillment of desires that would come from using the resources in a particular area because he has a desire for the mere existence of a state of wilderness."<BR/><BR/>If I understand your system correctly, I'd think that the "desire that ANWR continue to exist" is more a desire that helps fufill the "desire that my grandchildren have roughly 12 million square miles of arable land to use" then one that is itself given intristic value. The point remains, since the second one is given some intristic value, however. Just a minor point, if I am correct here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com