tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post7888883957090081720..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Republican Culture and the Value of TruthAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-3079385323431303422009-03-21T16:54:00.000-06:002009-03-21T16:54:00.000-06:00Al Qaeda terrorists haven't entered the country, n...Al Qaeda terrorists haven't entered the country, not to any significant extent that I'm aware of. There is an "Al Qaeda" in Iraq, but it is an opportunistic franchise responsible for a small percentage of the over all violence in Iraq. Additionally, foreign fighters are also not the major source of conflict in Iraq.<BR/><BR/>Al Qaeda in Iraq did not attack us on September 11.<BR/><BR/>I mean to say, seriously, as ABC News did, that the commericial blatantly conflated Iraq and 9/11 despite there not being any reason to do so.<BR/><BR/>The whole focus on AQI is itself a form of propaganda, <A HREF="http://www.americablog.com/2007/09/false-hype-of-al-qaeda-in-iraq.html" REL="nofollow">as noted</A> by AJ Rossmiller, a former intelligence analyst working for the Pentagon in Iraq (and who received excellent perfomance reviews.)Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-76631852085230885222009-03-20T15:07:00.000-06:002009-03-20T15:07:00.000-06:00Sorry, HG, but your attempt to defend the meme not...Sorry, HG, but your attempt to defend the meme not only provides zero support for the claim that Team Bush tried to pin 9/11 on Saddam, it's actually a shining example of media dishonesty, which supports MY belief that this meme is willful left-wing deception.<BR/><BR/>Take the statement, "They attacked us, and they will again. They won't stop in Iraq." Consider that this ad started in mid-to-late 2007. Our main enemy in Iraq around that time wasn't Saddam's forces (it hasn't been for a good long while) -- it was Al Qaeda terrorists who have entered the country SINCE the invasion for the purpose of killing Americans and impeding Iraq's progress.<BR/><BR/>Given that, you don't mean to seriously say you think this guy was talking about Saddam having attacked us, do you? ABC knew better, the average viewer of any of these spots would have known better, and for your sake, I would hope you would know better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-66877449884223530912009-03-20T13:50:00.000-06:002009-03-20T13:50:00.000-06:00If by "fantasy world" you mean fact based reality,...If by "fantasy world" you mean fact based reality, then, yes, I'm living in a fantasy world.<BR/><BR/>That pr teams were hired to help sell war with Iraq is not a controversial claim, and neither is the notion that Freedom's Watch consulted with media relations firms before running an ad campaign.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3512978" REL="nofollow">link</A><BR/><BR/><B>The ads also link the war with Sept. 11, despite no reliable evidence Iraq played any role in those attacks. <BR/><BR/>In the ad, Kriesel says, "They attacked us, and they will again. They won't stop in Iraq."</B> <BR/><BR/>Weapons of Mass Deception by Rampton and Stauber is a good starting point for understanding the use of public relation in the marketing of war with Iraq.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-56751852910067452572009-03-19T23:40:00.000-06:002009-03-19T23:40:00.000-06:00Ghost, you're living in a fantasy world. Can you ...Ghost, you're living in a fantasy world. Can you actually direct anyone to one of these commercials? The fair-minded accuse people of deception based on EVIDENCE, not based on crap fantasies about "PR consultants." Grow up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-86032360802147388702009-03-19T14:06:00.000-06:002009-03-19T14:06:00.000-06:00Right, partisan. This is the same Ari Fleischer wh...Right, partisan. This is the same Ari Fleischer who is a part of Freedom's Watch, which ran commericials saying we need to keep troops in Iraq because "they attacked us."<BR/><BR/>Whether or not administration officials explicitly state "Saddam caused 9/11" is irrelevant. What matters is the obvious pattern of conflating Iraq and 9/11 by the persons responsbile for marketing the invasion of Iraq. They and their pr consultant surely knew what they were doing and how the human mind process such statements. Which is why so many Americans believed and continue to believe Saddam had a role in 9/11.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-26237505404521395922009-03-18T11:48:00.000-06:002009-03-18T11:48:00.000-06:00I couldn't agree more, Alonzo. Which is why I wou...I couldn't agree more, Alonzo. Which is why I would never claim anything of the sort. I claimed that a partisan meme was a partisan meme, not that "the truth" was such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-23035852330949665642009-03-18T10:19:00.000-06:002009-03-18T10:19:00.000-06:00AnonymousActually, I think that the option that de...<B>Anonymous</B><BR/><BR/>Actually, I think that the option that deserves the least respect are those who claim that truth is a partisan meme.<BR/><BR/>People who judge truth or fiction by party affiliation - e.g., "Republicans believe X so it must be true" or "The Democratic Party favors Y so it must be a good idea," are using a highly unreliable method of separating truth from fiction.<BR/><BR/>Fact: There are members of both parties who have a loose relationship with the truth. The proper approach is to find the truth, then take that truth to the party. It is not to look at what is believed by members of a party, then to insist that this must be the truth.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-87373287956750078752009-03-18T09:58:00.000-06:002009-03-18T09:58:00.000-06:00Yes, "certain people identifying with a certain po...Yes, "certain people identifying with a certain political party" have indeed abandoned the truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-81449282071374837032009-03-18T01:25:00.000-06:002009-03-18T01:25:00.000-06:00Anon - if the truth is partisan, it is only becaus...Anon - if the truth is partisan, it is only because certain people identifying with a certain political party completely abandoned the truth. The facts are easily available for anyone to verify.<BR/><BR/>I'm not saying it can't happen to the democrats just as easily. It's just that this time, it happened to the republicans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-75169731689692158472009-03-17T10:06:00.000-06:002009-03-17T10:06:00.000-06:00So let me see if I have this right: you throw out ...So let me see if I have this right: you throw out a highly partisan meme, and anybody who doesn't buy the meme is beyond talking to. Nice little shell game you've got going! Of course, it's complete BS, but if it makes you feel good about yourself, well I guess that's all that really matters, now isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-70906393929543738412009-03-17T09:57:00.000-06:002009-03-17T09:57:00.000-06:00Anon - If you believe that (especially now, after ...Anon - If you believe that (especially now, after so much has come to the surface) then there is no point talking to you. You have succumbed to the culture of lies. I only hope that you regain your love of honesty before it's too late.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-86704487441108153612009-03-17T09:08:00.000-06:002009-03-17T09:08:00.000-06:00Am I forgetting that Bush declared war based on li...Am I forgetting that Bush declared war based on lies? No, it's just that he didn't base it on lies. Not only do you need to refresh your memory of the historical record, but you need to think twice about how positing such foolish statements as givens reflects on your rationality. I stand by my read of Fleischer's comments, especially since the bush administration has NEVER accused Saddam of 9/11. That's just a left-wing lie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-6165718530556534162009-03-16T13:01:00.000-06:002009-03-16T13:01:00.000-06:00Anon - there was no evidence that Sadam would have...Anon - there was no evidence that Sadam would have ever been able to perpetrate any hostile act on US soil. Or are you forgetting that Bush declared war based on lies?<BR/><BR/>Also:<BR/><I>FLEISCHER: But after September 11th, having been being hit once, how could we take a chance that Saddam Hussein might not strike again?</I><BR/><BR/>Um, yes, Fleischer basically states in clear terms that Sadam was responsible for 9/11.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-91279776135845200232009-03-16T06:34:00.000-06:002009-03-16T06:34:00.000-06:00Hi AlonzoI have added you blog to Networked Blogs ...Hi Alonzo<BR/><BR/>I have added you blog to Networked Blogs in facebook, you might want to claim authorship of this. I left a message on your wall.<BR/><BR/>MartinMartin Freedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16952072422175870627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-27851768734971165232009-03-15T08:57:00.000-06:002009-03-15T08:57:00.000-06:00Hume's Ghost, I just watched the Fleischer-Matthew...Hume's Ghost, I just watched the Fleischer-Matthews interview, and Fleischer doesn't suggest that Saddam was behind 9/11. It looked pretty clear to me that he was saying Obama should be thankful there wasn't a second attack on American soil, the second of which would have been perpetrated by Saddam. <BR/><BR/>I understand you see everything through a prism that wants to believe Republicans are the embodiment of evil, but give the guy a break -- I don't think it's a shocker that, after spending 15 minutes butting heads with one of the media's most boorish, unprofessional voices, Fleischer fails to word one statement as precise as he could have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-17313363682417735122009-03-14T12:19:00.000-06:002009-03-14T12:19:00.000-06:00nevermind, probably be a few days before I have th...nevermind, probably be a few days before I have that post upHume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-76802381862897395732009-03-13T22:05:00.000-06:002009-03-13T22:05:00.000-06:00I'm going to put up a post either tonight or tommo...I'm going to put up a post either tonight or tommorrow addressing the alternate fact-free universe that broacasts hundreds of hours of week on AM radio (and which spills over into the regular press.)<BR/><BR/>In other news, Ari Fleischer was on Hardball a day or so ago saying that Obama should be thankful for Bush's budget busting tax cuts for the rich because they led to record breaking job creation. In reality, George W. Bush has the worst job creation record since the gov't has been keeping records.<BR/><BR/>More outrageously even that that, Fleischer implied that Saddam was behind the 9/11 attacks and that Obama should be thankful he doesn't have to worry about Hussein attacking us <B>again</B>. As if he had attacked us in the first place.Hume's Ghosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551684109760430351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-70342154551597193842009-03-13T20:54:00.000-06:002009-03-13T20:54:00.000-06:00Yes, Alonzo, you are hitting the nail on the head....Yes, Alonzo, you are hitting the nail on the head. How many remember that Adolf Hitler's advice was that <B>if they don't believe you, just tell a bigger lie.</B> Unfortunately, people who don't tell the truth violently claim that since they <I>aren't Hitler's</I> or <I>Austrians</I> it automatically means they are telling the truth.antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909850387414677663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-35356481112391390412009-03-13T08:59:00.000-06:002009-03-13T08:59:00.000-06:00This may or may not be fodder for your ethics writ...<A HREF="http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=a-medical-madoff-anesthestesiologist-faked-data" REL="nofollow">This</A> may or may not be fodder for your ethics writing mill.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12968634190280933116noreply@blogger.com