tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post6635067824362448410..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Immorality and Young Earth CreationismAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-85947876141066173432009-10-29T11:52:06.417-06:002009-10-29T11:52:06.417-06:00CL, you are obviously a troll, and I know people s...CL, you are obviously a troll, and I know people shouldn't feed trolls, but as often I can't resist.<br /><br />"I do know that the only sustenance to claims of an old universe and old Earth are the assumption that God didn't create them."<br /><br />Study geology and you will know that what you said you know is wrong. Study astronomy and physics and you will know that what you said you know is wrong. You don't need assumptions, you just need equipment. Start with a telescope or a pick and a shovel. You will know that all the belief in the world is not as compelling as the facts of reality.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18290839610148572381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-17985650969618599102009-10-21T16:29:55.830-06:002009-10-21T16:29:55.830-06:00cl, I sent you an email.cl, I sent you an email.Jaymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06413844619464733681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-62360159841200011182009-10-21T09:28:02.077-06:002009-10-21T09:28:02.077-06:00Hello CL. I was a follower of your escapades over ...Hello CL. I was a follower of your escapades over at Evangelical Realism, I didn't realize this was your first post here. Hopefully it will be one of the last.<br /><br />Having seen you in action I already know that it's best to call you out on your BS early and directly. I wouldn't bother to make any sort of argument when replying to you, I was only highlighting your profound lack of integrity. As for your blog, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.Eneasznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-48141400439550924782009-10-20T05:07:55.831-06:002009-10-20T05:07:55.831-06:00Jayman,
If you happen to return to this thread an...<b>Jayman,</b><br /><br />If you happen to return to this thread and notice my comment, leave a comment at my blog or drop me an email if you can. I enjoyed reading your comments over at DD's quite a bit.<br /><br /><b>Esneaz,</b><br /><br />That was the first comment I've ever left here. Speaking of trolling, your whole screed is vitriol lacking so much as even a fraction of an intelligent argument, or even an intelligent objection to my arguments. If I ever do post here again, don't accost me with empty invective; if you absolutely <i>must</i>, well, I'll oblige, but do that crap on my own blog where you don't have to pull other people into your own immaturity. Stick to arguments and logic, not emotion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-87850819160720296342009-10-19T01:22:18.843-06:002009-10-19T01:22:18.843-06:00Hi cl! Haven't been banned from here due to t...Hi cl! Haven't been banned from here due to trolling yet? A pity...<br /><br /><i>I don't know how many calendar years have passed since the singularity</i>.<br /><br />Screw you and the horse you rode in on. No one is claiming to know how old the universe is down to the hour. But claiming that it's 6000 years old as opposed to ~15 billion years old is a mistake that is even more absured than claiming that the Grand Canyon is no wider than a human hair. Stop being an ass.<br /><br /><i>That somebody doesn't share your conclusion about an issue doesn't render them "morally irresponsible.</i>"<br /><br />Oh? I like to drink. A lot. But I have enough moral responsibility to not get behind the wheel of a car when I've been drinking. Hypothetically - if I did not "share your conclusion" that being drunk makes me incompetent to drive, does that mean I'm not "morally irresponsible"? Your own words.<br /><br /><i>Don't you cringe with revolt when people say atheists aren't fit to run this country? I do, and I'm not even an atheist</i>.<br /><br />Do you cringe with revolt when people say that 15-year-olds aren't fit to run this country? Yet even a typical 15-year-old (who's paid attention at school) knows more about the natural world than a YEC.Eneaszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14500232958398471146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-65961942117450243152009-10-18T01:37:44.251-06:002009-10-18T01:37:44.251-06:00I got routed here from Common Sense Atheism, becau...I got routed here from Common Sense Atheism, because I was curious to hear the justification for this claim Lukeprog seems to agree with.<br /><br />I'm no atheist, and I don't know how many calendar years have passed since the singularity, or the creation of Earth, but I do know that the only sustenance to claims of an old universe and old Earth are the assumption that God didn't create them. I expect folks to chuckle and dismiss my position, but I'm dead serious, and willing to defend that position. So, there's a little bit about me, and what I believe. Now..<br /><br />"The character trait I looked at is a willingness to blind oneself to evidence. The evidence for evolution and for the Earth being over 4 billion years old is so overwhelming that only a person with a morally irresponsible disposition to ignore evidence would not accept it." (Fyfe)<br /><br />People from all beliefs and walks of life can succumb to the intellectually impairing temptation to prefer comfort over honesty. That somebody doesn't share your conclusion about an issue doesn't render them "morally irresponsible." Also, a YEC Christian could just flip this arbitrary pronouncement right back at you.<br /><br />"Young earth creationists cannot be trusted to make good policy in matters of medicine or medical care." (Fyfe)<br /><br />Bah. Don't you cringe with revolt when people say atheists aren't fit to run this country? I do, and I'm not even an atheist.<br /><br />Bottom line: even if I believed Earth was created yesterday, I could in a morally responsible manner address the issues you claim I can't (cf. Jayman's 3: "One need not believe in evolution to know how animals and humans interact with the environment presently.")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-70811308396590800392009-10-01T18:47:56.163-06:002009-10-01T18:47:56.163-06:00I already discussed the macro/micro distinction.
...I already discussed the macro/micro distinction.<br /><br />I think we're all making the mistakes of clumping all YEC together, not all of the accept micro evolution either, I'm inclined to believe.<br /><br />I have no doubt that they would follow standard medical procedure, if for no other reason than to keep their jobs. However, that doesn't cover a lot of interaction with patients. On issues such sex, especially pre-marital or extra-marital sex, mental disorders, physical deformities, STI's, non-hetro sexuality and so on I wouldn't want to be subject to their bedside manner.<br /><br />And besides, as part of their degree they must have been subject to information to clarify their falsehoods.Edcanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12029988476525823004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-26757600659749894182009-10-01T18:22:43.660-06:002009-10-01T18:22:43.660-06:00ZoriN, can you point to a creationist doctor who d...ZoriN, can you point to a creationist doctor who does the things you talk about? Bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics would fall under micro-evolution, which creationists don't have a problem with. What practical difference does it make whether a doctor believes an organ is vestigial or not? Are there creationist doctors somewhere that refuse to remove an appendix because they believe it is not vestigial? Again, what practical difference does it make whether a doctor believes an anatomical feature is perfectly or imperfectly designed? Are there creationist doctors somewhere that won't treat an illness because everything's perfect as is?<br /><br />Regarding climate change, there is data from less than 6,000 years ago, right? Though I could not find a poll on the views of young earth creationists on global warming, I did come across some young earth creationists who accept that global warming is occurring.Jaymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06413844619464733681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-77830573556746850832009-10-01T18:02:38.961-06:002009-10-01T18:02:38.961-06:00If they accept micro but not macro, they're ev...If they accept micro but not macro, they're even worse, because they accept the principle but deny the logical conclusion, thus clearly they have all the evidence they need to make the proper judgement. A creationist doctor would deny many things accepted in medicine, evolution of bacteria in response to anti-biotics, vestigial organs, imperfect design and that sort of thing.<br /><br />I agree that the thought that perhaps they've just never looked at the evidence does trouble me, however, as they grow older this becomes less and less understandable, and more of a depiction of how much they cling to narrow-minded doctrine in the face of overwhelming evidence, and people who try to impose their view onto the world, rather than have the world impose on their view, are dangerious, which is what I think Ethicist was getting at.<br /><br />Well is there any reason why a YEC would accept climate change, given he couldnt' accept the data?Edcanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12029988476525823004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-67180045229373264042009-10-01T17:51:43.133-06:002009-10-01T17:51:43.133-06:00I think you've gone overboard in your characte...I think you've gone overboard in your characterization of young earth creationists, especially since they usually don't deny evolution entirely (e.g., they may reject "macro-evolution" but accept "micro-evolution").<br /><br />(1) Some young earth creationists may be ignorant of the evidence for an old earth and for evolution. People can only study a finite number of subjects in any kind of depth. To condemn such people as immoral would require an argument positing that people have a moral obligation to study the creationism/evolution debate.<br /><br />(2) Other young earth creationists have looked at the evidence for an old earth and for evolution and found the evidence unpersuasive. It is not obvious to me that this is a moral defect on their part. It seems to be more of an epistemological defect.<br /><br />(3) One need not believe in evolution to know how animals and humans interact with the environment presently.<br /><br />(4) Likewise, a doctor can heal the body whether he believes in evolution or not.<br /><br />(5) On what basis do you apparently believe that young earth creationists are less likely to build sturdier buildings in earthquake zones, to install tsunami warning systems, and to not live near active volcanoes? I've never noticed any significant disagreement on these matters between creationists and evolutionsts.<br /><br />(6) Young earth creationists don't deny the genetics behind agriculture and animal husbandry (they deny that natural selection can explain all life on earth). Even ancient farmers showed some knowledge of how to alter plants and animals to their benefit.<br /><br />(7) You might have something with the creationism/global warming denying link but I had a hard time finding any polls that address the subject directly.Jaymanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06413844619464733681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-53542139197700294902009-10-01T16:24:27.415-06:002009-10-01T16:24:27.415-06:00While I don't have any problem with the claim ...While I don't have any problem with the claim that young earth creationists are dangerous, especially with the fact that their rejection of proof against them requires rejection of science as a whole (although they don't seem to do that), I'm interested in is if this is due to a rejection of the idea that people can compartmentalise their beliefs, like many sceptics do when it comes to their sacred cows.<br /><br />Other examples of this kinda thing, IMHO would be holocaust denial, 'truthers' and anti-vacc. I'd be interested to know which ones you think are worse and why.Edcanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12029988476525823004noreply@blogger.com