tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post6064939265567322279..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: The Fate of Alexander AanAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-4547625777525436092012-04-10T07:04:32.879-06:002012-04-10T07:04:32.879-06:00The case has been brought to court, no final judgm...The case has been brought to court, no final judgment yet. You can still support him through this: http://www.atheistalliance.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=414Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-91478751036476392522012-01-31T18:20:04.406-07:002012-01-31T18:20:04.406-07:00Gallileo did it, Salman Rushdie did it, truth has ...Gallileo did it, Salman Rushdie did it, truth has never required martyrs because it rests on it's own merits and does not need the self-sacrifice of its adherents to make it true.Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-63569957250337579302012-01-30T16:32:53.940-07:002012-01-30T16:32:53.940-07:00i would say whatever they want me to say if it mea...i would say whatever they want me to say if it meant not spending 5 years in prison too.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08544209777124068097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-34394363870910570562012-01-30T08:49:49.154-07:002012-01-30T08:49:49.154-07:00The most recent news:
Alexander Aan to renounce a...The most recent news:<br /><br />Alexander Aan to renounce atheism and repent.<br /><br />http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/alexander-aan-to-renounce-atheism-embrace-islam-indonesia-police/494637Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-32420306562993919272012-01-30T08:49:23.646-07:002012-01-30T08:49:23.646-07:00I am content to let the people there deal with the...I am content to let the people there deal with the practical concerns.<br /><br />At this distance, I can best focus on the moral concerns - what should be done, even if it proves to be impractical.<br /><br />What should be done is that the assailants should be arrested, and Aan should be freed. (In some cases involving Christians, the Christian community was able to get assylum for the victim in a more peaceful community.)Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-7249676100189099232012-01-29T18:24:18.863-07:002012-01-29T18:24:18.863-07:00the blasphemey laws have been on the books since t...the blasphemey laws have been on the books since the 60's. the supreme court of indonesia was asked to review (and perhaps strike down the law but instead they re-affirmed it in 2009, so the courts are un-likely to be sympathetic) <br /><br />the law has been used on a variety of cases to send people to jail for what we consider freedom of religion.<br /><br />a muslim man said his prayers in his native language instead of in arabic... 18 months jail.<br /><br />another man was practicing a non-standard version of islam ... 2.5 years in prison<br /><br />a man is accused of whistling during his prayers (accused by one person, not sure how they proved it)... 6 months in prison.<br /><br />all of these men were mulsims in a country with an 88% muslim majority. So it's unlikely he will find a large amount of support among public oppinion inside indonesia.<br /><br />furthermore in this constitution it claims that the country is founded on the principle of believing in one powerful God. but the law sanctions 6 different ways to worship that god, Islam, Catholicism, Protestantism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Confucianism. thus some have claimed that being an athiest is illegal. putting him at a furhter disadvantage to the people in the above three cases, which did less than he did, from their perspective.<br /><br />indonesia has traiditionaly been tolerant of athiests as members of their communist party, but in 2006 when they recognized the list of only 6 "legitimate" religions, by presidential decree, that tolerance seems to be going out of style and since 2005 the blashpemy law have become more heavily enforced<br /><br />if all he said was that God does not exist on his personal facebook page his defense might be able to argue that it was not "public" which is a constraint on the blasphemy law... but a lot of his case i think will hinge on the "heated exchange" that happened afterwards.<br /><br />I think our best plan of action would be to focus attention on the illegal actions of the mob. in a 2008 case that is similar they arrested both the "blashphemer" and two men for inciting violence. so it might be easier than we think to get at least some of the rioters hauled off to jail as a deterent to help protect some of the other athiests in the country. <br /><br />alot of the rationlization behind the blasphemy law is to minimize sectarian violence that could be incited by percieved insults to people religion (at least people belonging to the important 6). though it is used to punish religous minorities... however due to this rationlization they seem to to be open to crackdowns on both sides of any dispute. <br /><br />(just to clarify i am not defending what they do or saying we shouldn't fight for freedom to not believe and what not, i am merely tring to say what is the most practical things that we can hope to accomplish)Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08544209777124068097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-78577618998705486812012-01-29T17:28:50.284-07:002012-01-29T17:28:50.284-07:00Sorry Ted, I think that we're talking at cross...Sorry Ted, I think that we're talking at cross-purposes here, what is it you're suggesting?Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-5974854303592825212012-01-29T17:07:42.506-07:002012-01-29T17:07:42.506-07:00Darren, if you are implying that I have tactics wi...Darren, if you are implying that I have tactics without ethics then answer me this: how many more lives are you willing to sacrfice for the pollyannaish delusion that Islam can be modernised with half-hearted measures? Whether victims of terrorism in the West, or Western soldiers in the Middle East, or moderates in Muslim countries. How many of these people have to die before Islam is modernised or you realise it's a delusion founded on the lie that Islam is capable of being tamed?<br /><br />The bodycount is ticking ...Tednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-58141382672627935882012-01-29T09:44:20.312-07:002012-01-29T09:44:20.312-07:00Ted:
We should stay the hell away from Muslim coun...Ted:<br /><i>We should stay the hell away from Muslim countries unless we plan to go the whole way and support a revolution in apostasy and extinguish Islam like the polio virus... Just leave them the hell alone unless they threaten to attack us.</i><br /><br />Who is "we" in this context?<br /><br />If "we" includes Alexander Aan and the other atheists living in Muslim countries (such as the group sminhinnick refers to) then it is too late for them to "stay the hell away" from the places where they live. And if Aan is one of us, then "they" have already attacked us.<br /><br />The overall tone of your post implies that there is no other option than violence to address the injustice being done to Mr. Aan. But violence has a poor track record when it comes to "extinguishing" harmful ideas. Social tools like persuasion, condemnation, ridicule, moral outrage, and free exchange of ideas are the most effective for the purpose. <br /><br />Muslims are not evil mutants; like all humans they are subject to social forces. If the treatment of Mr. Aan is condemned, then the notion that anti-blasphemy laws and mob violence are unjust will have a chance to spread in Indonesia. If the only voices that speak to the case of Mr. Aan are the bigoted fundamentalist Muslims that assaulted and imprisoned him, those injustices will continue unabated-- if not worsen. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."Jesse Reevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-25930520642526400282012-01-29T04:20:41.808-07:002012-01-29T04:20:41.808-07:00http://www.change.org/petitions/release-alexander-...http://www.change.org/petitions/release-alexander-aanUli Himstedtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-43251617115788308352012-01-28T17:02:28.889-07:002012-01-28T17:02:28.889-07:00AAI launches appeal to support Alex Aan - http://w...AAI launches appeal to support Alex Aan - http://www.atheistalliance.org/news-a-articles/aai-media-releases/414-alex-aan-appealsminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-49459080056733163672012-01-28T15:49:09.303-07:002012-01-28T15:49:09.303-07:00My Twitter exchange with Jakarta Globe reporter, D...My Twitter exchange with Jakarta Globe reporter, Desi Anwar:<br /><br />sminhinnick<br />@desianwar How can we follow what happens to Alexander Aan? It is no longer being reported in western media.<br /><br />desianwar <br />@sminhinnick not much reporting here eithersminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-80451923311481966712012-01-28T15:27:23.405-07:002012-01-28T15:27:23.405-07:00Thanks, Anonymous.
I have now emailed PZ Myers ab...Thanks, Anonymous.<br /><br />I have now emailed PZ Myers about this, and posted a blog entry about it here: http://sminhinnick.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/call-to-support-alexander-aan-facing-5-years-for-atheism/<br /><br />Please go to my article and like it, tweet it, and spread the word in any way you can, as something simple and practical that you can do.sminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-62429470592633061322012-01-28T12:42:17.527-07:002012-01-28T12:42:17.527-07:00Sminhinnick, the "Likes" on Facebook are...Sminhinnick, the "Likes" on Facebook are actually the other way round. So it is not those big-hitters you mentioned who like that support group, but the admins of that support group like those you listed. It does not necessarily mean that these groups or people are watching the case yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-7438842368332401832012-01-28T10:33:52.093-07:002012-01-28T10:33:52.093-07:00Ted I would concede your point if the name of the ...Ted I would concede your point if the name of the blog was 'Atheist Tactician'.Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-71491699664722442862012-01-28T05:28:28.678-07:002012-01-28T05:28:28.678-07:00That second Facebook page I listed above has been ...That second Facebook page I listed above has been "liked" by some big-hitters, including:<br /><br />American Humanist Association, <br />The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (Official), <br />Global Secular Humanist Movement, <br />American Atheists, Inc. (Official), <br />Afghan Atheists, <br />Anti-Theists. Pro Active Atheists. Opposing Religion., <br />Blasphemy Day International, <br />Atheist Alliance International, <br />Stephen Hawking, <br />Freedom From Religion Foundation, <br />IRiS (Indonesian Rationalist Society), <br />Amnesty International, <br />Military Association of Atheists & Freethinkers (MAAF), <br />Richard Dawkins.<br /><br />This story is being watched by some influential atheist groups, and I am sure we will hear more about it.sminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-91781050866158370332012-01-28T05:17:59.180-07:002012-01-28T05:17:59.180-07:00A second Facebook page in support of Mr Aan: http:...A second Facebook page in support of Mr Aan: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Alex-Aans-Human-Rights/194025204028128?sk=infosminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-59966092025837122912012-01-28T04:40:44.126-07:002012-01-28T04:40:44.126-07:00A few minutes of Googling has found leads on this ...A few minutes of Googling has found leads on this story. There is a Facebook page (of course!) for his supporters called "Support Alexander Aan". Here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-Alexander-Aan/303902699646099<br /><br />The Jakata Globe published a good opinion piece by TV anchor Desi Anwar here: http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/opinion/desi-anwar-might-is-not-right/494136. She might keep us updated if contacted directly. Try her personal page here: http://www.desianwar.com/coaching/consultation.html or via Twitter - @desianwar<br /><br />Another Jakata Globe article (http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/dismay-after-indonesian-atheist-charged-with-blasphemy/492622) reveals more possible contacts. And that there is a 600-strong atheist organization in Jakarta!<br /><br />I agree that this story should be followed up and communicated widely - to get Alexander Aan freed and to throw the spotlight on anti-atheist laws in Indonesia.sminhinnickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02124558920529891265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-79971114615556591032012-01-27T16:19:10.865-07:002012-01-27T16:19:10.865-07:00It's a small thing, but how about at least his...It's a small thing, but how about at least his name and the circumstances of his arrest as a wikipedia entry?Darren Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00035977231087809840noreply@blogger.com