tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post4983172212488245859..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: The Copenhagen Declaration on Religion in Public Life - Part 09Alonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-67829598437904778352010-07-26T11:02:12.586-06:002010-07-26T11:02:12.586-06:001. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack of ...<i>1. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack of one. I'm pretty sure that the old saw is "Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby."</i><br /><br />I disagree with this one.<br /><br />When I say I am an atheist - when (almost) all competent English speakers use the term atheist - I (they) use it to mean "a person who holds that the proposition "At least one God exists" is certainly or almost certainly false.<br /><br />I know that a number of atheists are into saying that atheism is not a belief. However, I find that they can score rhetorical points by either eqivocating on the meading or just muddying the water.<br /><br /><br />However, referring back to the earlier comment, <b>Zaharan Razak</b> lost me at the start.<br /><br /><i>A belief is like paper money. It is important because many people believe and accept it. Never mind if it is false or true.</i><br /><br />What?<br /><br />It doesn't matter whether the plant is poisonous or not. It only matters whether you believe it is poisonous.<br /><br />It doesn't matter whether shooting somebody will kill them, the belief that the bullet will pass through his body without doiong harm is good enough.<br /><br />It doesn't matter whether you are sober enough to drive, if you believe you are sober enough to drive, that is all that matters.<br /><br />True beliefs matter. They are the method by which our actions become successful or unsuccessful. You can try to ignore reality - you can assert a "will to believe" whatever you want, but reality is always going to win. It will not yield to mere belief.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-55559816310743146342010-07-26T09:58:49.506-06:002010-07-26T09:58:49.506-06:001. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack o...1. Atheism isn't a belief. It's a lack of one. I'm pretty sure that the old saw is "Atheism is a belief like not collecting stamps is a hobby."<br /><br />2. So an 'ought' based on an 'is' and an 'ought' based on an 'is not' are equally valid? Moral Calculus? Man, that's not even Moral Long Division. <br /><br />3. I don't know much about Yamamoto's beliefs, but Hitler was no atheist. I'm pretty sure that suicide bombers who are looking for a reward in heaven don't fit the bill either. <br /><br />4. If all delusions are equally valid, then why even bother to care what others think? Just believe your thing harder and make your own little reality bubble.<br /><br />5. You need to read Alonzo's posts word by word. They're dense. They're precise. They're built carefully on previous posts. You might also try reading those previous posts.dbonfittohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08787420987976232701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-46365445812521517852010-07-24T21:12:09.466-06:002010-07-24T21:12:09.466-06:00First of all I'd like to admit and apologize t...First of all I'd like to admit and apologize that I did not read your posting word by word. Once I thought I got the drift of it I felt I'd like to post a few short comments as the subject is dear to myself (see zveloyak.blogspot.com). So if my comments are a bit (a lot) off tangent or superfluous here and there, that is the reason. Here goes:<br />A belief is like paper money. It is important because many people believe and accept it. Never mind if it is false or true. The moment we know for a fact it is true then it is no more a belief but a fact! Like the earth is flat or two plus two makes four. To pacific islanders or flat earth believers any amount more than two is many and a flat earth is most reassuring. So whether it is false or true does not matter and a belief in facts is absurd. You can only believe when there are two competing claims or when there is uncertainty but once you cross the line and make a choice and feel certain then the question of belief or hanging on to the belief is absurd. I believe Holland will lose to Spain is only valid until the final whistle. After that it is meaningless. The problem arises in the case where the final whistle is still acoming, like the end of the world or the answer to the question is Jesus human or god or both or a triad. Here's the paradox. Billions of people for 2000 years are CERTAIN in an uncertainty! So here it goes to show the possible falsity of the belief is immaterial. What is decisive and influential is the belief itself. You might as well believe in a frog as the son of god. Literally, utterly meaningless, but symbolically, it'd give millions meaning to their otherwise dreary and directionless lives. Now atheism - not-believing - is as much a belief as any good old fashioned religion. " I believe there is no god but virtue is its own reward," says the good atheist while the crackpot one would say "since there is no god and therefore no final afterlife accounting/auditing/accountability, I'm going to rob and kill my fellowmen as long as I can get away with it." The hardcore might even say, "To hell if I get caught ... I'm going to die with guns blazing." History, I'm afraid, is full of the latter example. Hitler, Yamamoto, Suicide bombers ... Ma Baker ... My conclusion (it is a no brainer actually) Life is one long delusion full of uncertainties but in order to survive we kid ourselves with the pacifier of beliefs. Men cannot survive without delusions. Hence mythologies and religions and their counter arguments such as atheism. All we do is expend a lot of words over nothing! What is the word ... yay, logorhea (sorry, spelling). All the toandfroing, all the ball kicking, all the wars is to stanch (?) the slow bleeding of death and hold the terrifying sound of silence at bay. Another belief? Guilty as charged.Zaharan Razakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11689133789755876100noreply@blogger.com