tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post4159841826871065558..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: Scandle Within the Catholic ChurchAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-37947669454313899202010-03-31T21:21:04.135-06:002010-03-31T21:21:04.135-06:00This is a very nice post. I notice among some of m...This is a very nice post. I notice among some of my friends (and perhaps myself sometimes, though I don't like to admit it) the sort of thinking you're describing here. I notice that sometimes people using words like "atheism," "theism," "rational," and "irrational" tend to subtly add to their definitions, perhaps unconsciously, the notion that these words are badges of honor or scarlet letters that inherently make the person they describe better or worse. Thanks for the thought provoking read, sir.SS400https://www.blogger.com/profile/17307796666410840170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-65903855387317193132010-03-31T17:31:35.167-06:002010-03-31T17:31:35.167-06:00Everything that has happened to the Catholic Churc...<i>Everything that has happened to the Catholic Church can happen to a secular institution.</i><br /><br />Not all organisations are the same.<br />Rather than comparing the Catholic Church to some vague 'secular institution' surely you should compare it to a secular institution that is authoritarian in the same way as the RCC. Otherwise you aren't comparing like to like.<br />Likewise there will churches that are not as authoritarian as the RCC, without a head who is supposedly infallible.<br />What you say about human nature is true but certain institutions can arguably promote the worst of that nature due to the power structure and their lack of openness.<br /><br />On top of that you have the Pope being the head of state of the Vatican which adds an extra layer of immunity from prosecution similar to that of other heads of state and diplomats.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02113192159669193981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-7588325065071447962010-03-31T13:52:11.010-06:002010-03-31T13:52:11.010-06:00I THINK YOU MEAN "SCANDAL" IN THE HEADLI...I THINK YOU MEAN "SCANDAL" IN THE HEADLINE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-30405462971125391102010-03-31T10:24:16.867-06:002010-03-31T10:24:16.867-06:00The fact is,"belief in God" and "pe...<i>The fact is,"belief in God" and "pedophilia" are not related.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure I believe this. Pedophelia could create a desire for some sort of religious feeling.<br /><br />And, belief in christian morality <i>does</i> seem like it could lead to more willingness to actually molest children.<br /><br />In christian teaching, it's desires that are immoral. So, given that someone wants to hurt a child, there's not really any extra sin in actually doing it. They've already committed the act in their heart.<br /><br />So, we have causality in both directions.<br /><br /><i>Nor is "belief in God" and "willingness to protect an organization that one belongs to." These are both facts about human beings independent of religious beliefs, thus they are not facts that separate the religious from the non-religious.</i><br />This also seems untrue.<br /><br />I like the organizations I belong to. I think it's generally a good thing for the world.<br /><br />I do not believe that they are necessary to lead mankind towards God and away from a literal eternity of suffering.<br /><br />A religious person and I both want to preserve our organizations. But, my motivation is less strong.Richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16929722353413887802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-14379558972128694952010-03-31T07:16:55.805-06:002010-03-31T07:16:55.805-06:00Anonymous
I do not understand what you are critic...<b>Anonymous</b><br /><br />I do not understand what you are criticizing.<br /><br />First, I explicitly stated that the immunity that churches have to scrutiny is a problem. My post states this explicitly.<br /><br />And, second, whatever objections are raised to the fact that "the bishops did not attempt to stop the abuses" the very same objections would still apply no matter what other term you might put in for "bishops" - whether it be "teachers" or "administrators" or "police" or "family members".<br /><br />Focusing on the term "bishops" gives a free pass to any non-bishops who might also engage in the same type of behavior in relevantly similar circumstances.<br /><br />Failure to appreciate the fact that there are elements of human psychology at work here that all humans share - and that other institutions are also vulnerable to these types of forces, fail to put us on guard against similar abuses elsewhere.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-6199737193638690622010-03-31T01:00:59.781-06:002010-03-31T01:00:59.781-06:00This post gets certain things wrong, and although ...This post gets certain things wrong, and although I doubt you mean to be a concern troll, the way in which you get things wrong is reminiscent of that behavior.<br /><br />Take, for example, your use of the suicide which made the news. Unfortunately for your writing, the officials at the school apparently <i>did</i> attempt to stop the problem by intervening. The interventions did not work, but they did take place. And once the suicide occurred, the school is looking for ways to amend its policy to solve the problem.<br /><br />Contrast that with the church: the bishops did not attempt to stop the abuses, but merely acted to cover them up. Now that the cover has been hopeless blown, they are attempting to cast the blame on others and refusing to alter their policies.<br /><br />Your example in fact is an illustration that, at least anecdotally, a secular institution at least attempts to justify its position of trust, rather than lie to protect that trust like a church.<br /><br />I can't say that I'm concerned that bloggers who are particularly atheist aren't mentioning that case, because I'm not. It's a tragedy, but what relevance does it have to atheism? Given the different response of the school and the church to scandals, the only relevant thing they could say is "this illustrates that secular institutions can handle things better than churches do", and that would be in poor taste.<br /><br />Furthermore, I would argue that the immunity which churches have to scrutiny (and to punishment by outside forces) <i>is in itself</i> a way in which religious organizations are inferior to secular ones. Anything which creates a blind spot in law enforcement is a problem, not matter what other effects it may have.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com