tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post3814528750890670154..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: ChinaAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-27962349991210273382008-08-14T01:06:00.000-06:002008-08-14T01:06:00.000-06:00I am learning Mandarin Chinese (and a little nativ...I am learning Mandarin Chinese (and a little native Taiwanese), and one of my potential plans after graduation is to go to China, Taiwan, or Vietnam to teach English. One of the sad parts of this is that for very few teaching-English jobs in these countries is it required to know the language of your students.Emu Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05352556221263050952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-28463726890715484132008-08-13T01:04:00.000-06:002008-08-13T01:04:00.000-06:00The comments in this thread pretty much made my po...The comments in this thread pretty much made my point for me.<BR/><BR/>Lawyer, you must be right. USA has done the most good Ev4r and all the people who hate USA are just jealous...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-78631566107792915872008-08-12T20:23:00.000-06:002008-08-12T20:23:00.000-06:00As a U.S. American, but most importantly, as a hum...As a U.S. American, but most importantly, as a human being, I find it regretful that people attach so much of their identity to their nationality and country. And perhaps Americans are the most beligerent in this regards at this time, perhaps not.<BR/><BR/>Thus, when Americans (US) hear a criticism of their country, they immediately respond with defensiveness. Although we are not the only ones indoctrinated with nationalism, it is true that we are fed a daily diet of assumed superiority. We are told about all the apparent good things we do in this world, but most of us are unaware of a deeper analysis of why all these things are not neccessarily always so "good".Sheldonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-60819744047383126912008-08-12T19:29:00.000-06:002008-08-12T19:29:00.000-06:00Squid: You are welcome! The emerging nations had ...Squid:<BR/> You are welcome! The emerging nations had centuries of abuse from European and US Americans so I can understand their reluctance to trust english speaking "North Americans". Thirty years ago I told my children the best thing they could do was learn to speak Chinese, move to an Asian nation, and become a part of what was going to unfold in the 21st century. I do not regret my advice. I regret that I had to give it! Peace!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-24238787900526579332008-08-12T18:42:00.000-06:002008-08-12T18:42:00.000-06:00Thank you for the examples, Anton. I'm still not ...Thank you for the examples, Anton. I'm still not sure I believe that the USA is the source of Canada's problems, but we certainly have thrown our weight around the continent.<BR/><BR/>Back to the original topic: as much as I'd like to believe that the Golden Rule applies at the geopolitical level, it just seems hopelessly naive. Nations act in their own interest (or what they perceive to be their interest). If the USA wants to flourish in a world where it doesn't call the shots, it should work damn hard to make itself an indispensable partner with the rising powers. If it's in China's and India's best interest to see the US remain happy and successful, then it's likely to happen. At least, far more likely than if the US just tries to play nice and hope for reciprocation.Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846309245873277004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-21927010329786223692008-08-12T16:50:00.000-06:002008-08-12T16:50:00.000-06:00squib: I think it would be important to add this ...squib:<BR/> I think it would be important to add this example:<BR/> The FBI funded the testing of LSD on unsuspecting Canadians through their influence at McGill University in Montreal. The victims had to fight for many years, in many courts, for compensation for the horrible after effects.<BR/> More volatile halucigens were used in experiments on some citizens of rural Alberta.<BR/> The future father-in-law of Brian Mulroney, a Canadian prime minister, was one of two doctors who conducted the "experiments" at McGill.<BR/> It is widely known now that this was one of the CIA's covert acts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-69328096482146285972008-08-12T16:30:00.000-06:002008-08-12T16:30:00.000-06:00Squid: Here are two examples. (1) Destruction ...Squid:<BR/> Here are two examples.<BR/><BR/> (1) Destruction of the AVRO project.<BR/><BR/> (2) Devils Lake, North Dakota<BR/><BR/> I have plenty of others but I don't think you believe I would have any. I would be interested in your take on these two items.<BR/><BR/> In the meantime, we are getting away from Alonzo's thread. My apologies, Alonzo!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-5196552592699033892008-08-12T16:25:00.000-06:002008-08-12T16:25:00.000-06:00The countries that are busiest telling the rest of...The countries that are busiest telling the rest of the world that they are number one at this exact moment appear to be Russia and China.Burt Likkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060980744675990412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-50845814343098363282008-08-12T16:19:00.000-06:002008-08-12T16:19:00.000-06:00Attempting to "change" things in Canada usually re...<I>Attempting to "change" things in Canada usually results in finding that the "root" of a problem resides south of us.</I><BR/><BR/>Specific examples would be appreciated. Additionally, examples of plucky Canadians bravely standing up to their southern overlords would be helpful.Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846309245873277004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-67661657129487831512008-08-12T15:54:00.000-06:002008-08-12T15:54:00.000-06:00Transplanted Lawyer: I heartily agree with you t...Transplanted Lawyer:<BR/> I heartily agree with you that Canada shouldn't brag about its accomplishments either. If you will notice, Canada isn't busy telling the world that it is Number One. I won't take it personally if you do throw some stones our way, we most likely deserve them. <BR/><BR/> When you assess some of the things that have been done by Canda, you might see who was in power. When you have a Republican president and we have a Conservative prime minister, all kinds of terrible things happen. <BR/><BR/> Attempting to "change" things in Canada usually results in finding that the "root" of a problem resides south of us. And since US American interests own outright more than 65% of Canada, we do what we are told. <BR/><BR/> As an Atheist, I am personally concerned since Christian extremism is growing in Canada. Where it was not an issue to be an Atheist thiry years ago, it is getting to be one now. Don't let the census fool you, while we have a very high who claim their Atheism on a census form, our percentage of Atheists who have "come out" is very, very low!<BR/> As you fight for Atheist rights, it might advisable not to let your loyalty, traditions and memes get in the way of common sense. <BR/> The world recognizes that the Number One intellectual in the world is Noam Chomsky. Speaking for world interests, we wish more US Americans would listen to Noam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-17797294174271831052008-08-12T15:42:00.000-06:002008-08-12T15:42:00.000-06:00Nice rhetorical dodge, Anton, but transparent as c...Nice rhetorical dodge, Anton, but transparent as cello tape. <BR/><BR/>You realize that Chomsky is yet another American contribution to the betterment of life on Earth, don't you?Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846309245873277004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-60845074818967970072008-08-12T15:06:00.000-06:002008-08-12T15:06:00.000-06:00Anton, I could point out ways in which Canada, too...Anton, I could point out ways in which Canada, too, has failed to live up to its own ideals or elected (and re-elected) some people who have said and done some kooky things. But I won't. Rather than throw stones, I'll just hope that when you look south of your border, you too try to take in the whole picture before passing judgment rather than selectively looking for things to criticize. Cheers.Burt Likkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060980744675990412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-24637351851417454622008-08-12T12:39:00.000-06:002008-08-12T12:39:00.000-06:00Squid: If only life was so simple! Have you read...Squid:<BR/> If only life was so simple! Have you read anything by Chomsky? Until you have studied Chomsky (I chose him because I believe he represents US America's conscience) you shouldn't repeat the <I>spin doctoring</I> that appears to have worked on you.antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909850387414677663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-39879858519156137882008-08-12T12:17:00.000-06:002008-08-12T12:17:00.000-06:00There's enough baseless assertion in this thread t...There's enough baseless assertion in this thread to require 1,000 words to refute, so I'll just lay out a simple challenge for the group: name one nation that has done more than the USA in the last century to relieve suffering and improve life on Earth.Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846309245873277004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-4038095530091206972008-08-12T09:57:00.000-06:002008-08-12T09:57:00.000-06:00Transplanted Lawyer:PPSWe used our economic power ...Transplanted Lawyer:<BR/><BR/>PPS<BR/><BR/><I>We used our economic power to subsidize the reconstruction and modernization of every nation we've had bad military relations with -- including Iraq, Germany, and Japan, as well as underwriting the reconstruction of all of Europe after WW II.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, if hisotry serves me correctly, you destroy a country, rebuild it, and charge heavily. I believe Germany is still repaying US America for its WW11 activies. We haven't seen the US use its power and might help end major disputes that did not have a "profit factor" actached. Have you heard of any US troups helping out in Africa? It would appear that the only "international despots" US America recognizes are those that have "oil wells" in their back pockets. US America involvement in any International squable has had to pass the "means" test. There has to be a substantial profit for US America to get involved. Of course, the spin doctors would have us believe that US America is <I>spreading democracy and freeing the world of opporession.</I>antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909850387414677663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-87125031991728694702008-08-12T09:30:00.000-06:002008-08-12T09:30:00.000-06:00Transplanted Lawyer: US American foreign aid come...Transplanted Lawyer:<BR/> US American foreign aid comes with the provision that the funds must be spent in US America, often at highly inflated prices. All nations do this. US America perfected it. <BR/><BR/>US American may have created the United Nations but does not recognize its laws. It is possible that US America believed it could control the UN, and couldn't. Can anybody recall that for a long period in the UN's history it was bankrupt because, US America went several years without paying its dues. The rest of the world saw the US American failure to pay their bill as their complaint that they weren't "getting their own way".<BR/><BR/>And, how many US Americans have any idea of what price the UK paid to them to join in the Second WW? Paying for protection and aid is valid, but what took place is seen by the more enlightened people of the world as extortion, cohersion and exploitation. <BR/><BR/>With regard to "keeping our frustratation with the current president in perspective" we would like to remind you that US Americans elected him . . . and for a second time, no less. And, what about some of former presidents who made the rest of the world suffer through their "reigns"?<BR/><BR/>US Americas have accomlished a lot. Individually they are some of our worlds great innovatoors and philanthropists. With regard to their "benevolance", however, we would doubt that the generosity would be as great if it wasn't "tax deductible". <BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, "evil triumphs when good men stay silent". Maybe the good men are speaking out but cannot be heard because they are drowned out by other less informed US American's shouting "We're Number One!"<BR/><BR/>P.S. And don't forget, "Atheists are not considered good US Americans!" If one of your presidents had his way, Atheists would be denied citizenship!antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909850387414677663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-80146325705072097712008-08-12T07:55:00.000-06:002008-08-12T07:55:00.000-06:00At the same time, we US Americans have acted from ...At the same time, we US Americans have acted from time to time in ways we can be proud of.<BR/><BR/>For all of our spending on military programs and nuclear weapons, instead of the social programs or foreign welfare that many would have had us spend our money on, we've been relatively judicious in the use of our weapons. The incumbent Administration is an unfortunate exception to that rule, and so was the Johnson Administration from 1963-1968. But the general rule since 1945 has been for the USA to deter rather than to attack. There is some bellicose rhetoric being exchange now about Georgia and about Iran, but the likelihood that the USA will actually use its military power in those areas is quite small.<BR/><BR/>We used our economic power to subsidize the reconstruction and modernization of every nation we've had bad military relations with -- including Iraq, Germany, and Japan, as well as underwriting the reconstruction of all of Europe after WW II.<BR/><BR/>We lent our military to Europe in the face of a (lest we forget) truly terrifying and overwhelming Soviet military with every apparent intention of conquering all the way to the Atlantic. Because we spent our treasure protecting Europe, European nations did not have to and were able to build economically viable nations with very substantial social welfare institutions.<BR/><BR/>We led the way to create the United Nations, which has proven to be a useful if somewhat ineffectual forum for international diplomacy.<BR/><BR/>We spend more per capita on foreign aid than any other nation on the planet. We feed more people in other nations than anyone else. There is not a country on earth that has not received a generous offer of assistance from us after a disaster -- including the former Soviet Union, Iran, and Burma.<BR/><BR/>We could have done a lot worse for ourselves than we have. If you're considering what sort of a nation the USA is ethically, try to keep your frustration with the current President in perspective. He's been the exception rather than the rule, and he'll be out of power on January 20, 2009.Burt Likkohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060980744675990412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-25223220242810196612008-08-12T07:08:00.000-06:002008-08-12T07:08:00.000-06:00db0: I notice that you use "US American". I have...db0:<BR/> I notice that you use "US American". I have been using it for years. A part of the arrogance and ignorance of US Americans is that they need to believe that the term "American" only applies to them. They fail to recognize that to the rest of the world, Canada, Mexico and ,yes, even CUBA, are American. They are now bemoaning the "outsourcing" and "loss of jobs" as US American corporations take advantage of the cheaper labour their US American owned foreign "corporations" or "interests" employ. The loyalty of these US American interests is not to US America, but to the economic interests of their shareholders. There will come a day when US America won't be able to celebrate Christmas "like they did in the old days" because their Chinese and Indian Governments will demand COD for the Greeting Cards, Decorations and Gifts manufactured in their countries.<BR/><BR/>Do US Americans comprehend just how much they owe China? Would Wal*Mart even exist if it wasn't able to exploit foreign labour? <BR/><BR/>US America may be Number One in the world for a lot of things but it should be reminded that it also has the Largest World Debt and it is not paying its bill!antonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909850387414677663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-55305414129113961132008-08-12T00:58:00.000-06:002008-08-12T00:58:00.000-06:00Unfortunately it is an all too common experience f...Unfortunately it is an all too common experience for me that US Americans are so lost in their pride and power that they cannot conceive ever not being the world superpower. Indeed, I oftenly see example of outright denial of world situations.<BR/><BR/>It is this pride that makes me scared. It makes me scared that an insane US president (and your country has already displayed a willingness to put them into power if they say the right things or line the correct pockets) will prefer to start a nuclear war than allow someone else to take over.<BR/><BR/>Honestly, I do not see the US Americans ever accepting that their empire is on the rapid decline. The rest of the world knows it but not the majority of your own countrymen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com