tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post3481347014219645261..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: International Day of Protest Against Child Religious GroomingAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-65272545552750852382011-12-28T00:23:34.157-07:002011-12-28T00:23:34.157-07:00advenioadveritas .... raises the issue of harm and...advenioadveritas .... raises the issue of harm and here is where the perpetrators have their blinders on. I challenge anyone who thinks that exposing vulnerable children to the horrid barbaric "facts" declared in the bible and Koran to read the personal narratives apostates write and post on web sites such as exchristian.net, ex Mormon, ex Catholic and so on. The link between religion and mental problems is well established and goes back to the 18th century before Freud. <br /><br />The proponents always claim that a child can leave the assembly when they reach maturity, but by that time their minds are truly damaged, they are faced with dishonor if they leave, and they might be bereft of friends and sometimes even family. Not in all cases, not in all families, but the true accounts you can read are more than a little disturbing.<br /><br />There is no way to know in advance how a child will be effected.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08388950897346770681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-46588486556082705862011-12-27T14:33:15.526-07:002011-12-27T14:33:15.526-07:00I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the role of ...I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the role of grooming in most religious indoctrination. Where grooming diverges from indoctrination or simple socialization is that it requires forced "participation" in the activity. And a prime indicator of crossing the line to grooming is that the practice is irrational and/or that the party with most of the power is the one who overwhelmingly benefits from the relationship.<br /><br />Examples of social practices that require persistent grooming for compliance, but which are no longer tolerated to the point of being made illegal, are: child labor, domestic rape, arranged marriages, and class-mandated career options. In the latter two cases, it is now seen to be an individual choice, healthy for an adult, but disabling for a child outside her own volition.<br /><br />Progress always comes with social and legal rights being recognized and extended to the disenfranchised. The day of opposition to religious grooming seeks to foster this recognition. The right of religious choice is the next logical right to grant in the progression of recent gains for children. <br /><br />When they are older, people can make this decision for themselves, as they do of a mate or career. Certainly, parents are free to share their beliefs, but participation that is forced, physically or mentally, as with any other abuse of power in a relationship, can no longer be tolerated.<br /><br />Certainly, with the recent evidence that religious societies are the most dysfunctional on a score of social health indicators, this is not a matter of opinion or personal preference, it is time for the damage that religious grooming does to the formative minds of children to be prohibited. <br /><br />Terms:<br />Indoctrination, itself, is distinguished from education by the fact that reasoning is convoluted and contradictory and that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned.<br /><br />Contrast with the fundamental principles of science, which call for critical self-evaluation and skeptical scrutiny of one's own ideas, a stance outside any doctrine.Hifinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-32759254637317929962011-12-23T12:42:59.286-07:002011-12-23T12:42:59.286-07:00PS
The event page on facebook is:
http://www.face...PS<br />The event page on facebook is:<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/events/180167638738083/<br /><br />I have posted several articles on this topic on the Wordpress blog:<br /><br />http://www.endhereditaryrelgion.comRichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08388950897346770681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-34388018206031085622011-12-23T12:40:10.691-07:002011-12-23T12:40:10.691-07:00Children are entitled to an open future, but the g...Children are entitled to an open future, but the goal of indoctrination is to limit them to just one future, that of an adherent who will financially and morally support an institution until they are taken from the place feet first. Freedom, which everyone says they are fervently in favor of means the right to make your own choices to suit your life goals and dreams. Forcing faith on a child is a direct usurpation of their personal freedom. The only reason it happens is the adults who run the culture approve of the practice. <br /><br />As the initiator of the event I welcome participation and ideas. I now see it more as a week of protest instead of a single day.Richhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08388950897346770681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-84913948975837050202011-12-10T18:12:23.970-07:002011-12-10T18:12:23.970-07:00Although I haven’t gone to facebook and checked fo...Although I haven’t gone to facebook and checked for the group I’d wager that they got some of their ideas from Dawkins’ BBC special, of which I was recently shown a copy. How to raise a child is always such a hotly debated topic that special care needs to be taken when engaging in the debate, as well as a rudimentary understanding of child development. In this I agree with your assertion about the need for parents’ to teach their kids societal norms, but I do have to question where you think these norms will come from. Where do they draw their views on rape, the KKK, or other moral issues? Where will morality be drawn from, science? Which perpetually claims to only tell the facts why those seeking morality from it seem to use for a subjective morality that happens to favor their presupposed beliefs.<br /><br />In a free society where the child will eventually be exposed to the real world and their ideas will be tested, trying to tell parents what they can and can’t teach their kids seems too much like a big brother issue and still raises the question of who says what’s right.<br />If there is no harm coming to the child through religious instruction then why not?<br /><br />I happen to agree with you that it is essential for parents to encourage their children to test and see what’s true. As someone with a conservative Christian background I encourage it, because the difference in a useful Christian and a bad one is whether they own their faith, but coming to it through real inquiry, not just believing what was handed to them. This is true for any worldview.advenioadveritashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01008509748035950970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-20033965625728651932011-12-01T18:23:14.000-07:002011-12-01T18:23:14.000-07:00It's not enough just to raise your kid to unde...It's not enough just to raise your kid to understand that zeus and yahweh are mythological figures, but to explain <i>why</i> they are. <br /><br />In that sense, you don't even need to say 'god is a myth', you can simply explain god in such a way that his mythological status is implicit and obvious.Justin Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08440600379295330616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-90548860831693216322011-12-01T17:28:59.261-07:002011-12-01T17:28:59.261-07:00i think you could add that the things that one is ...i think you could add that the things that one is most likely to be wrong about are those things that are hotly debated within society. And thus in such areas one should be more careful to apply the "i might be wrong" rule when deciding how strongly to use indoctrination and how frequently to use informed choice when raising children.<br /><br />certainly one can find horrible things indoctrinated into children which were ignored by a society, as counter examples. i am syaing it is a useful tool not a perfect one. Finding true beliefs is difficult and a lively social debate is a good indication that alot of people are mistaken and that I or you could be one of them. <br /><br />that way at least if a proposition managed to become strong enough to reach the altitude of nationwide discourse we could suspend indoctrination long enough to allow at least one generation the oppurtunity to make an informed decision.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08544209777124068097noreply@blogger.com