tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post113185949978203094..comments2023-10-24T04:29:23.693-06:00Comments on Atheist Ethicist: The Meaning of LifeAlonzo Fyfehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-28485593064299557312007-06-08T19:56:00.000-06:002007-06-08T19:56:00.000-06:00If God has no authority over us for the fact of no...If God has no authority over us for the fact of not existing, then His place befalls to us.<BR/><BR/>We then assume the authority of God in the place of God.<BR/><BR/>Thus we are gods.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-84425808704745354612007-06-02T17:52:00.000-06:002007-06-02T17:52:00.000-06:00anonymousYour statement is as sensible as saying, ...<B>anonymous</B><BR/><BR/>Your statement is as sensible as saying, "If there are no leprachauns, then you are a leprachaun."<BR/><BR/>Please explain what it is you were trying to say?Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-87866463832383763752007-06-02T13:33:00.000-06:002007-06-02T13:33:00.000-06:00If there is no GOD, then you are a god.If there is no GOD, then you are a god.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-80311639619734077032006-12-30T16:17:00.000-07:002006-12-30T16:17:00.000-07:00India said, "I'm sure you disagree as to the quali...India said, "I'm sure you disagree as to the quality of their reasoning and evidence, but my point is that there is evidence."<br /><br />What evidence? <br /><br />Personal experience that cannot be measured or evaluated is not evidence. Coincidence is not evidence. What evidence?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1145285738167162822006-04-17T08:55:00.000-06:002006-04-17T08:55:00.000-06:00Of course, the theist asking about a "meaning of l...Of course, the theist asking about a "meaning of life," is irrelevant to the questino of whether theism is true or false.<BR/><BR/>Saying "If there is no God, then life has no meaning! There must be a god!' is akin to seeing a balance of $200.00 on your bank statement and saying, "If this is true, then that means I'm not a millionaire! I so want to be a millionaire! This bank statement must be wrong!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1145214524874712672006-04-16T13:08:00.000-06:002006-04-16T13:08:00.000-06:00"I would like to suggest however that the rational..."I would like to suggest however that the rationalist also has a faith of his own, only it is a faith in himself and on the emperical senses;"<BR/><BR/>Yeeeargh. This is crap, and I will explain exactly why.<BR/><BR/>You, as a "believer", have just as much faith in your empirical senses as any rationalist. You prove it every day as you go through your ordinary life, getting up in the morning, greeting your family, and so on.<BR/><BR/>You have just as much faith in your own thinking as any rationalist: you are the one who thinks he sees evidence of a God. Just you: and you have faith in your own thinking in order to accept that evidence.<BR/><BR/>The rationalist has no faith that you do not have. You, however, have gratuituous faith without evidence (in the doctrines of Christianity, perhaps) which the rationalist does not have. The rationalist is a faith-minimalist, who is skeptical of as much as s/he can be, and accepts as little as possible "on faith". You accept "on faith" everything the rationalist does, and much more besides.<BR/><BR/>I may be wrong. Perhaps you have less faith in your own empirical senses than I do. (As someone who has hallucinated, I seriously doubt it: I have faith only that *most* of what I sense is accurate; and of course that all of what I sense is in fact sensed by me, which is a tautology.) Perhaps every morning you get up and wonder "Is that really a bed, or just a very convincing illusion placed there by the devil to confuse me? Both possibilities seem equally likely." Perhaps when you meet your family, you wonder "Have they all been replaced by alien clones from another planet? How can I possibly tell? I'd better consider both possiblities, just to be safe." I suspect you do not do either of these things; the people I've known who do do things like this are generally locked in psychiatric institutions.<BR/><BR/>Now, it is possible to mistrust yourself to a great degree without going quite that far. I do know someone who believes very firmly in her own inadequacy and incompetence, and "trusts to God" instead. This means that she always does the opposite of her own instincts. The pitiable part is that she actually has pretty good instincts, and has therefore ruined her life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1134241709010102022005-12-10T12:08:00.000-07:002005-12-10T12:08:00.000-07:00Anonymous,I think you have forgotten some points o...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/><I>I think you have forgotten some points of Christianity...But there is something to be said for the hardening of hearts if you read the passage in Romans chapter 8 you may be surprised.</I><BR/><BR/>What did I write that was contradictory to essential Christian doctrine? What did I write that was contradictory to Romans 8?<BR/><BR/><I>Christians do not view each other as being of greater value then the other.</I><BR/><BR/>In practice, some probably do this, but I agree with you that they ought not to.<BR/><BR/><I>I will quote Soren Kierkegaard just so that we are a little more aware of where the Christian disposition ought to be when engaging in this discussion...</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, I'm not quite following you - what part of my comment are you taking issue with?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1134200864877104592005-12-10T00:47:00.000-07:002005-12-10T00:47:00.000-07:00Dear India,Perhaps when you make your arguement I ...Dear India,<BR/>Perhaps when you make your arguement I think you have forgotten some points of Christianity. I don't know if you fall on the Calvinist or Armenianist view point in regard to the debate of predesitination. But there is something to be said for the hardening of hearts if you read the passage in Romans chapter 8 you may be surprised. Also in John it says 'you did not choose me for I chose you.' There is a cetain theme within the teachings of Christ that give air to a selective revelation. Also, I guess for the benefit of those who have no back ground in Theology or Christian Studies, Christians do not view each other as being of greater value then the other. I will quote Soren Kierkegaard just so that we are a little more aware of where the Christian disposition ought to be when engaging in this discussion.<BR/>"“… but just as the well-disciplined child has an unforgettable impression of rigorousness, so also the person who relates himself to God’s love, unless in a ‘soft’ (1 Timothy 4.7) or like-minded way he takes it in vain, is bound to have an unforgettable fear and trembling though he rests in God’s love. Such a person will surely avoid speaking to God about the wrongs of other against him, of the splinter in his brother’s eye, because such a person will prefer to speak to God only about grace lest this fateful word 'justice' ruin everything for him through what he himself has invoked, the rigorus like for like.”1<BR/><BR/>Besides all this ambiguous talk, ultimatly as Kierkegaard has pointed out, the Christian ethic is essentially one that if filled with grace because he knows of his own faults. <BR/>I mentioned this bit about revelation<BR/>only because not all are going to accept Christianity, and Christianity transcends human rationality because there is an element of faith required. And not all have faith.<BR/>I would like to suggest however that the rationalist also has a faith of his own, only it is a faith in himself and on the emperical senses; I wonder how it is that the rationalist can justify such a stance because as we all know, we simply do not know beyond our own subjectivity. We in our ethical systems are essentially starting in the middle, we don't start from scratch nor do we look back in heinsight, so rationality almost to me appears even more irrational.<BR/><BR/>1SØren Kierkegaard Trans. Howard V. Hong and Edna H. Hong Works of Love (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1813-1855 [CW 1995]) 337Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1132951197679021412005-11-25T13:39:00.000-07:002005-11-25T13:39:00.000-07:00On with the Mexican hats!!! DEny the egg apostles...On with the Mexican hats!!! DEny the egg apostles!!! Follow the hat!!!<BR/><BR/>Gurp!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1132922031436487642005-11-25T05:33:00.000-07:002005-11-25T05:33:00.000-07:00I just wanted to say thank you for writing and pos...I just wanted to say thank you for writing and posting this text. I came across it on atheism.about.com and was amazed - it is very beautiful and deep. Thank you for sharing. :)<BR/><BR/>Love,<BR/>~MinAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1132600827050141702005-11-21T12:20:00.000-07:002005-11-21T12:20:00.000-07:00You said you were interested in theists' comments,...You said you were interested in theists' comments, so here goes. :-)<BR/><BR/>First, I'd rather atheists took the attitude you seem to be taking here rather than saying, "I think you're wasting your time and/or doing something wrong by worshipping God/following your religion, but that's your business." If there is no God, then I am wasting my time, and I'd rather that someone had enough concern for me to try to point this out. Cf. this passage from 1 Cor 15: "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 1More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead...If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men."<BR/><BR/>However, I think a lot of the points in your essay are not applicable to Xianity.<BR/><BR/>> The lives of the eggless "are purposeless, empty, and miserable."<BR/><BR/>While I do believe that those who have Jesus in their lives have access to something (God) that will enable them to be fulfilled and at peace, it doesn't follow that all Christians are happy and all nonbelievers are miserable. The next time a Christian tells you this, refer them to Paul and Barnabas' speech to unbelievers in Acts 14:17: "[God] has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy."<BR/><BR/>> Their stares are a mixture of pity, concern, and contempt...Some want the eggless shut away, for the sake of the children.<BR/><BR/>While I am sure there are many Christians who display this attitude towards atheists, it is not a right attitude (except for showing concern).<BR/><BR/>Concerning the Blues vs. Reds: Yes, this is an attitude that is displayed among many theists and is often wrong, e.g. Christians who insist that you must read the KJV or belong to their particular denomination. However, disagreements of this sort do not disprove theism or Christianity, any more than moral disagreements among atheists (or DUists, should DU become widely accepted) mean there are no true moral statements. It is also not the case that all statements of the form "you must do X to be saved" are false, any more than all statements of the form "you must do X in order to be a moral person" are false.<BR/><BR/>> I think that you are wasting your life caring for that box. You could be caring for the people around you instead. <BR/><BR/>Ever read the book of James?<BR/><BR/>Finally, concerning the whole concept of not being able to tell there's really an egg in the box: I don't think this is completely analogous to the theist's position. Many theists have good reason to believe in God through experience as well as reason. I'm sure you disagree as to the quality of their reasoning and evidence, but my point is that there <I>is</I> evidence. A better analogy is that the egg box owner has heard and/or felt something inside the box, even if the eggless think it's debatable that the something is really an egg or is of supernatural or extraterrestial origin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131915281907065762005-11-13T13:54:00.000-07:002005-11-13T13:54:00.000-07:00anonymous:You, and anybody else, are free to show ...anonymous:<BR/><BR/>You, and anybody else, are free to show this to any theists, using whatever medium you wish. (Email, link to this site, or posting in a bulletin board).<BR/><BR/>I would be interested in their comments.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131908393851962022005-11-13T11:59:00.000-07:002005-11-13T11:59:00.000-07:00Yea!!! I love metaphor!I don't suppose any theist...Yea!!! I love metaphor!<BR/>I don't suppose any theists have seen this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131902061137882902005-11-13T10:14:00.000-07:002005-11-13T10:14:00.000-07:00Very well done.Very well done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131894746712157782005-11-13T08:12:00.000-07:002005-11-13T08:12:00.000-07:00Alonzo Fyfe said... SophomaniacIf you would like t...Alonzo Fyfe said... <BR/>Sophomaniac<BR/><BR/>If you would like the long version of how I came to be an atheist, you will find it in Chapter 1 of a book I have posted on my web site:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.infidelguy.com/members/AlonzoFyfe/desire_utilitarianism.shtml" REL="nofollow">Desire Utilitarianism: An Atheist’s Quest for Moral Truth</A><BR/><BR/>The short version is that I was always an atheist. When I was young, I thought that this whole "god" stuff was like "santa clause" -- something that people had fun with, but nobody could ever really believe it was true. It made no sense.<BR/><BR/>So, there was no moment in which I decided that I ultimately came to say, "I am an atheist". There was, however, a rather shocking and disturbing set of events when I was a young child when I came to realize that other people are not.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131894519006910032005-11-13T08:08:00.000-07:002005-11-13T08:08:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Alonzo Fyfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05687777216426347054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16594468.post-1131886945111510932005-11-13T06:02:00.000-07:002005-11-13T06:02:00.000-07:00hello mr. fyfe! all thru ur text, u kept my i...hello mr. fyfe!<BR/> all thru ur text, u kept my interest. i am an atheist as well. but i prefer not adding a negative connotation that the word 'atheist' implicitly carries. in other words, i mean that i do not mind if people around me believe in god. though, do prefer a world full of atheists. i am not against religion and god but at the same time not for them. though ur anecdote is quite big, it carries something basic about how i think about atheism.<BR/> i believe that one should not waste his life for something which has no proof or which cannot be known. what makes me write back to u is, u have mentioned about all the issues u have confronted in ur life. i too have confronted many as have all people on earth. but, i think no non atheist can turn into an atheist reading ur text. that may not have been ur aim though. for instance, u ask a student to write an essay on capital punishment, u would probably receive many dimensions to the topic concerned. but does every full blown student believe and practise what he or she has written? i don't doubt the degree of atheism in you nor do i think that u bother about others thinking about ur beliefs. but your thesis seems very abstract. despite that i get lured to ur 'issues confronted'.<BR/> i would like to know what made u become an atheist. it is true that a process and long sequence of events leads us to making new decisions. but, there must have been a sigularity-the day u felt, if not said to ur self, that u would now turn into an atheist.Mauryahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10343895637430483913noreply@blogger.com